Wednesday, March 3, 2010

Work -Energy Theorem

I believe Ryne is working on this lab. Here are some comments from the other specialists.



Getting reliable, repeatable results using the motion sensor will be close to impossible. For example, substituting the motion sensor for the photogate in the Conservation of Energy Lab will give errors that are much larger and erratic.

Tommy Morgan
ASIM Physics Specialist

Good morning everyone,



I present myself to you once more as the resident GLX ignoramus. But at least this time, it’s just questions, not problems. I recently checked the equipment (including GLX) for 8 lab stations for the Work-Energy lab. I wanted to make sure that all Force Sensors, Motion Sensors, and GLX would do their job correctly before dropping it off at a school.

Although the write-up cheerfully proclaims (Equip. Setup, #2) that the GLX will open to a Position-Time graph, all 8 opened to a Force-Position graph. Also, when I moved to different graphs (by changing the axis parameters) I found that “position” was the default measurement of the x-axis for all three graphs. I don’t know how to create or change a default setting. Of course, we can change it every time we move to a graph, but is that how it must be done? If you’re wondering, yes, I had Position-Position graphs instead of Position-Time graphs.

The lab talks about using the portion of the Force-Position graph that is horizontal (Analysis, #6), however every time I ran a test, the Force readings alternated about an average position which was just about right, judging from the mass hanging on the string. What little horizontal part there was, usually did not extend beyond about 4 data points (at the most). This was with 8 different Force Sensors and 8 different GLX. Also, the reading was only to a tenth of a Newton while I could make reasonable guesses to the hundredth of a Newton simply by looking at the position of the data points on the graph. In other words, the graph would bounce back and forth and the cursor readings would be 0.2 N and 0.3 N (alternating) although I could see that the real points were probably 0.24 N and 0.26 N. Is there a reason for this or is that just the way it is?

In regard to using only the horizontal part of the graph: If we only use a portion of the Force-Position graph, say from 0.3 m to 0.45 m, then the Work value we obtain will be the work between those points. Why would we not need to find the change in velocity between those points in order to calculate the change in kinetic energy that correlates to the amount of work done from 0.3 m to 0.45 m? Yet the change in kinetic energy found by the instructions in the lab is from start to finish (Analysis, #7) using the max. vel. found before being concerned about a horizontal part of the Force-Position graph. Should we use the Linear Fit tool on the Force-Position graph and then use the distance from start to max. vel. to get a work value that would correspond to the max. vel. we’re using (from Analysis, #3)? Apparently this has not caused problems in the past, so there is something here I am not understanding.

By changing the measurement parameters of the x-axis on the velocity graphs, I think an interesting question to challenge the students with presents itself. To wit, “Why is the graph of Velocity-Time a straight line, but the graph of Velocity-Position has a decreasing slope, like a root curve?” I was thinking it might be good, although a little tricky, not to mention the Velocity-Time graph and just ask why, if the acceleration is constant, does the Velocity-Position graph curve downward instead of being linear?” They might assume it should be linear, not realizing that applies to the Velocity-Time graph, not Velocity-Position. Then they have to start thinking to make sense of it. I know this is not the purpose of the lab, but understanding what the graphs are saying is part of the COS.

I welcome any help with any of the above, and thank you.



Jeff Woods

2 comments:

  1. Another comment from ASIM Specialist

    I just redid the lab. The GLX opened to the Force Position Graph. I routinely download all the GLX files from the web and reload the GLX's during the summer so I think the web templates are to the default Jeff mentioned. I had widely different percent errors during summer training. I don't think having the cart tethered to the GLX by the force sensor wire helps either. When I quickly redid the lab I did 3 runs and had 50 percent error.
    Chuck

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  2. And more thoughts on W-Energy from ASIM Specialist:

    As far as I know/recall. I just did this one about 4 weeks ago with a small class (4 groups of 3) 50 minute class, where I talked too long before letting them go. They rushed through and all 4 groups got good results.

    I don't think they understood it, but the data looked good. I really push them to zero the sensor each run and to be very careful to move with the cart while trying to hold the cable so that there is slack as they move parallel to the cart. I go around and look at the data as they collect it and tell them whether or not I think they should try again and why.

    Like I said, I'm surprised there's so much agreement with how bad it is for others. I'll look at it again tomorrow and see if there's something else that isn't written down, but not that I can think of.

    Dan
    On Wed, Mar 3, 2010 at 8:37 PM, Covin, Julie wrote:
    Dan, I wish I could see this lab working with your group. What is it that you do differently that keeps your data consistenly under 20%? Just holding the force sensor cord?
    J
    Julie Covin
    Physics Specialist
    The University of Alabama
    304 Gallalee Hall
    Tuscaloosa, AL 35487
    205.348.6459
    205.531.3230
    jcovin@bamaed.ua.edu


    ________________________________
    From: Daniel O'Halloran [do0001@uah.edu]
    Sent: Wednesday, March 03, 2010 7:20 PM
    To: Covin, Julie
    Cc: Hanke, Charles (Chuck); Stan Hart; Tommy Morgan; Jeff Woods; Doreen Brisendine; Robin Chestnutt; Tommi Holsenbeck; Matt Obley; Barbara Reynolds
    Subject: Re: Work-Energy Question
    I checked the website. The glx file was posted in April, 2007. Here at home I cannot say how that file will open (which graph).

    I checked the date for the last revision of the student lab. It was replaced in Oct 08 and dated Sept of 08. I opened the archieved file (previous student version) dated 2007. That file says the glx file should open with a Position vs Time graph.

    If the glx file on the website is wrong, it is probably an error at the time of the original posting of the file to the website and not related to the handout or updates to the handout.

    I can replace that glx file and or send out to those who want it a copy of the glx file that opens in a Position vs Time graph.

    Regarding the lab itself, I didn't like this one in the beginning. However, it has grown on me and I have several teachers who use it regularly (two without my help). I usually say that less than 20 percent error is OK, less than 10 is good because you directly interact with the cart while taking data (holding the force sensor cable). That being said, the last couple of times I've done it this year (recently and back in fall) the percent errors were from 5 to 20ish. Even had a group put the wrong mass on the hanger and it worked fine.

    I am surprised to hear it has been such a problem, but I look forward to seeing it amended. It could easily be done numerically (rather than graphically) without the force sensor by simply using the known Force = mg. But for speed and spit balling and a grapical approach, it has grown on me in the last two years.

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